tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post2248526246306938235..comments2023-06-13T19:06:50.965-07:00Comments on Oasis: The World: Reconcilling What Is And What Ought To BeKarlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-13928261894785539842009-05-21T12:57:40.519-07:002009-05-21T12:57:40.519-07:00karla said: we do have a universal understanding o...karla said: we do have a universal understanding of the world being other than it "ought" to be even if we disagree on the particulars.<br /><br />It's really not as simple as that. We can all point to things that 'ought' to be better or different but this does not mean that there is a *universal* understanding that things are not as they "should" be (whatever that means). That would imply that there was a single end result to all the improvements we can come up with. There are actually many paths to a 'better world' - and they all lead to (sometimes very) different places.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-433854676322403302009-05-21T06:23:49.387-07:002009-05-21T06:23:49.387-07:00Cyber, I'm not talking about us all agreeing on wh...Cyber, I'm not talking about us all agreeing on what "better" would look like, but that we do have a universal understanding of the world being other than it "ought" to be even if we disagree on the particulars.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-48958732533518208472009-05-20T07:41:48.134-07:002009-05-20T07:41:48.134-07:00"The Christian explanation also provides the subst..."The Christian explanation also provides the substance of hope that all of creation will enter into paradise regained."<br /><br />No, it does not - this is a blatant error or misrepresentation. Most people will go to hell, according to the Bible. Those people and hell itself are part of creation, and they will not enter into paradise regained.GCThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09744295225958022872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-56643480860699770472009-05-20T04:45:43.969-07:002009-05-20T04:45:43.969-07:00This is nothing but an argument from wishful think...This is nothing but an argument from wishful thinking. There is nothing of substance here - it's a twisted version of the is/ought fallacy. Simply because you think something ought to be doesn't mean it is.<br /><br />"We may disagree on what that better is, but we all agree it ought to be better. That idea of there being a better gives credence to the proposition that there is an objective good by which to judge something as not measuring up or as accurately reflecting the good."<br /><br />Nice contradiction.<br /><br />"Personally, I think that the Christian worldview does a good job of explaining why there is a struggle between the evil we see and the good we know is possible."<br /><br />goddidit doesn't explain anything.GCThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09744295225958022872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-70418624474956056142009-05-19T13:25:00.000-07:002009-05-19T13:25:00.000-07:00karla said: Why can we imagine a world with no cri...karla said: Why can we imagine a world with no crime, war, famine, pestilence, hate, discrimination, and poverty? Why can we imagine a utopia when we obviously don’t have one?<br /><br />Because we generally have good imaginations and its easy to imagine something even slightly better - never mind utopian thinking.<br /><br />karla said: Many have sought the ideal life, but none have succeeded to create a utopian community.<br /><br />There have been a fair few attempts - which either fail because of internal problems or are crushed from 'outside' by the State they're set up in.<br /><br />karla said: It seems we can apprehend a reality we have not experienced that tells us that things ought to be good.<br /><br />Not really. It's just that we can imagine things being better.<br /><br />karla said: Every great movie or novel pits good against evil depicting the very real battle between the two in a struggle for the good to win.<br /><br />I'd be careful with the word 'every' and it depends what you mean by 'great' too. The word 'often' or 'many' would be better.<br /><br />karla said: I was dismayed for we do really think movies, as well as life should end well, but it doesn’t always.<br /><br />I really hate sugar sweet happy endings just for the sake of it. I like realistic endings which are often messy and ambiguous. Simple morality tales irritate and bore me.<br /><br />karla said: We may disagree on what that better is, but we all agree it ought to be better.<br /><br />Which is kind of a problem, don't you think? If you have two (or usually more) groups who all have a fairly clear idea of what a better world should look like but all pull in different directions.... things are not exactly going to improve much are they?... and deaths may be involved - as the usually are when people object to other peoples idea of utopia. <br /><br />karla said: That idea of there being a better gives credence to the proposition that there is an objective good by which to judge something as not measuring up or as accurately reflecting the good. <br /><br />Not it doesn't. It just means that people can see faults in things - which will be different faults dpending on your point of view - and will have different ideas of what to do about them. The obviously Platonic idea of some kind of Utopian Ideal is nonsense. One persons utopia is another persons Hell.<br /><br />karla said: We are all learning how to take those glimmers and bring them into fruition in this world.<br /><br />Different glimmers... different solutions... different fruits....<br /><br />karla said: The Christian explanation also provides the substance of hope that all of creation will enter into paradise regained.<br /><br />Which explains why Christianity is popular amongst the poor and downtrodden masses of the world...CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.com