tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post5348516534662560495..comments2023-06-13T19:06:50.965-07:00Comments on Oasis: The Truth About Truth Karlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comBlogger107125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-19669865273452546372009-04-13T14:04:00.000-07:002009-04-13T14:04:00.000-07:00"cl is also well known for thread-jacking, which i...<I>"cl is also well known for thread-jacking, which is clearly what he's done here. He's dragged in petty vendettas and arguments from other threads and other blogs in order to create turmoil on your blog."</I><BR/><BR/>Please. I'm sick of the party-lines thing, and I wanted confirmation that Romans 1:27 has nothing to do with Paul arguing the natural use of women is as sex objects for men, and everything to do with homosexuality. When Karla makes a mistake, you're all over her, and I think people should be held accountable for the claims they make when it comes to biblical exegesis. <BR/><BR/>In order to avoid you getting all mad, I purposely kept your name and all pertinent links completely out of the conversation I was having with Mike. I don't think Mike even suspected it was you, until you said something. And, this relates directly to part of what we're talking about in the thread, which is how to go about reading the Bible.<BR/><BR/><I>"I'm going to continue to observe my policy of not being dragged into argument with him, as I find him to be nothing more than seeking attention and trying to feed a martyr complex."</I><BR/><BR/>Take a deep breath, it's not that. I just want you to admit you were wrong about that particular verse, but I'm not holding my breath. The polemical thing is getting old, no? We'll never get anywhere if we can't start somewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-6462647657873643552009-04-13T10:01:00.000-07:002009-04-13T10:01:00.000-07:00karla said: "Then there is something keeping you f...karla said: "Then there is something keeping you from being free to do what you think is right."<BR/><BR/>ck said: "...and we have the capacity to overcome those things because we are self-aware and have free will. It's like giving up smoking. Many people do this - no God is required to make it so, just the *Will* do do it. In many ways we are as free as we want to be. The choice is ours."<BR/><BR/>Ironically, if the Xian tenet of an omni-max god is true, then we have no free will with which to overcome anything.<BR/><BR/>That said, it's a little more complicated than saying that we can choose to overcome things like addictions, etc. Some people are more wired to have addictive personalities than others. One person may take a hit of crack and walk away never to do it again, or want to, while another might take a hit and be hooked from the start.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-37201426501662018322009-04-13T07:13:00.000-07:002009-04-13T07:13:00.000-07:00karla said: Cyber, I don't see a humanity that is ...karla said: Cyber, I don't see a humanity that is overcoming our nature to do things we don't see as right.<BR/><BR/>Neither do I. But on a *personal* level it's certainly possible to do so. That's what we're talking about aren't we? Personal freedom?CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-88044939928886506462009-04-13T05:36:00.000-07:002009-04-13T05:36:00.000-07:00Cyber, I don't see a humanity that is overcoming o...Cyber, I don't see a humanity that is overcoming our nature to do things we don't see as right.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-26205392892898603642009-04-11T12:59:00.000-07:002009-04-11T12:59:00.000-07:00Threats? As in bodily harm? Spamming? As in unwant...Threats? As in bodily harm? Spamming? As in unwanted ads? <I>Really?</I> <BR/><BR/>I know nobody cares, but for the record, I've never threatened any blogger or spammed any blog. That's a false statement coming from somebody with strong emotional and personal motivations, which are fairly self-evident. I can only hope each person here will make up their own mind about me, independent of influence from others. Cyber, Monolith, Karla, Quixote... I think highly of each of you as debaters, and I treat your arguments with respect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-13543359112000755982009-04-11T09:02:00.000-07:002009-04-11T09:02:00.000-07:00CK gave the same response I was going to. :-)CK gave the same response I was going to. :-)Mike aka MonolithTMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08385705390882035829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-33547854702482058482009-04-11T07:58:00.000-07:002009-04-11T07:58:00.000-07:00karla said: Then there is something keeping you fr...karla said: Then there is something keeping you from being free to do what you think is right.<BR/><BR/>...and we have the capacity to overcome those things because we are self-aware and have free will. It's like giving up smoking. Many people do this - no God is required to make it so, just the *Will* do do it. In many ways we are as free as we want to be. The choice is ours.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-41810737162795167612009-04-11T07:48:00.000-07:002009-04-11T07:48:00.000-07:00Mike, addictions, habits, anything that you by you...Mike, addictions, habits, anything that you by your own estimation feel is something you "ought" not to do? Not asking for a list here, it's a rhetorical question. But if there are things that you do that you don't want to do (and I'm not talking about working a job, Cyber) but thinks like being quick tempered with a loved one, or whathaveyou. Then there is something keeping you from being free to do what you think is right.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-12689788057022559032009-04-10T14:04:00.000-07:002009-04-10T14:04:00.000-07:00karla said: we think we are free until we taste fr...karla said: we think we are free until we taste freedom and then we see we weren't.<BR/><BR/>Oh... I think I'm pretty free. More free than most I think....<BR/><BR/>karla said: Do you not do things that you don't want to do?<BR/><BR/>A few things yes.... But they normally help pay the mortgage. <BR/><BR/>No one is *totally* free. Nor should they be. But I am forced to do very little in life. As far as such things go I am the master (or at least the XO) of my fate.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-88377145368302053722009-04-10T13:06:00.000-07:002009-04-10T13:06:00.000-07:00"Do you not do things that you don't want to do?"D..."Do you not do things that you don't want to do?"<BR/><BR/>Do you mean bad habits? Otherwise, why would I do something I don't want to do?Mike aka MonolithTMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08385705390882035829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-55363844126497512009-04-10T13:01:00.000-07:002009-04-10T13:01:00.000-07:00Yes, we think we are free until we taste freedom a...Yes, we think we are free until we taste freedom and then we see we weren't. Do you not do things that you don't want to do?Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-25462621391102542242009-04-10T11:46:00.000-07:002009-04-10T11:46:00.000-07:00Oh I'm nowhere near *that* trusting![rotflmao]Oh I'm nowhere near *that* trusting!<BR/><BR/>[rotflmao]CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-52006393049620391502009-04-10T11:29:00.000-07:002009-04-10T11:29:00.000-07:00ck:Have you tried "bondage?"If done right, it can ...ck:<BR/>Have you tried "bondage?"<BR/><BR/>If done right, it can be pretty fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-46562945283470754432009-04-10T10:17:00.000-07:002009-04-10T10:17:00.000-07:00karla said: That's something that is on my heart b...karla said: That's something that is on my heart big time to help people who are trapped in bondage, Christians and non-Christians to find freedom and restoration in Christ.<BR/><BR/>"Bondage"....? Not my 'thing' really..... <BR/><BR/>Personally I regard myself as reasonably free... not a chain to be seen.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-38415917193412794922009-04-10T10:16:00.000-07:002009-04-10T10:16:00.000-07:00Special pleading.Special pleading.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-8145573240350742932009-04-10T09:49:00.000-07:002009-04-10T09:49:00.000-07:00Yes, if they have surrendered that area of their l...Yes, if they have surrendered that area of their life to his restoring power. Not all have. And many are in process. And many are still trapped in their old self for whatever reason. That's something that is on my heart big time to help people who are trapped in bondage, Christians and non-Christians to find freedom and restoration in Christ.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-10516596815275806992009-04-10T09:21:00.000-07:002009-04-10T09:21:00.000-07:00Then let me rephrase, logically Christians have mo...Then let me rephrase, logically Christians have more potential to be kind and loving than non-Christians.Mike aka MonolithTMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08385705390882035829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-76349237179537826622009-04-10T09:03:00.000-07:002009-04-10T09:03:00.000-07:00karla said: We are all made in God's image and we ...karla said: We are all made in God's image and we all have these characteristics in us.<BR/><BR/>...and I obviously disagree - at least about the 'God's image' assertion anyway....<BR/><BR/>mike said: So logically, Christians must be the kindest and most loving.<BR/><BR/>I think that the important word that karla used was "can". It obviously doesn't follow that the Christians *are* the best of us - just that they *can* be.... [laughs]CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-87411654897226069892009-04-10T08:42:00.000-07:002009-04-10T08:42:00.000-07:00"...Jesus can still bring out the best treasures i..."...Jesus can still bring out the best treasures in each of us."<BR/><BR/>So logically, Christians must be the kindest and most loving.Mike aka MonolithTMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08385705390882035829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-2131090420055456592009-04-10T08:39:00.000-07:002009-04-10T08:39:00.000-07:00Cyber that's not what I said at all. We are all ma...Cyber that's not what I said at all. We are all made in God's image and we all have these characteristics in us. Some have them hidden more than others due to a variety of circumstances, but Jesus can restore them to their proper place in our lives. You don't have to be a Christian to be kind and loving. But Jesus can still bring out the best treasures in each of us.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-67360730143516643082009-04-10T07:59:00.000-07:002009-04-10T07:59:00.000-07:00karla said: Obviously we know that kindness, forgi...karla said: Obviously we know that kindness, forgiveness, love and compassion are the ideals and that good things result from such a life. This is because these things are a taste of the goodness of God...etc...etc...<BR/><BR/>So do you think that people who do not believe in God, do not act as if he exists and behave in a purely secular manner are incapable of kindness, forgiveness, love and compassion...? Although I agree with you that they are virtues I do not agree that they are either purely Christian or Theistic virtues.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-44496645566882837542009-04-10T07:21:00.000-07:002009-04-10T07:21:00.000-07:00I agree with Cyber that a person's upbringing or l...I agree with Cyber that a person's upbringing or lifestyle can affect them positively or adversely. What is sown into a person is what is reaped. If a person is raised in a harsh environment they can often become angry, bitter, depressed, etc. When they are raised in accordance with kindness, compassion, forgiveness then they will reproduce that. Obviously we know that kindness, forgiveness, love and compassion are the ideals and that good things result from such a life. This is because these things are a taste of the goodness of God and the bitter things are things that distort our spirit and our soul and draw us into bitterness and anger and cold heartedness. <BR/><BR/>Christ heals these wounds that the world or parents or siblings or whathaveyou have inflicted upon people and He helps restore that brokenness to bring the person into freedom from these bondages. However, we often want to hold on to our unforgiveness and bitterness and we don't let Jesus heal these areas and that's when you have bitter Christians. Christians who know the truth but are still in bondage to their wounds and pains. <BR/><BR/>But when we give Jesus complete access to heal our inner selves and restore us to the fullness of life, love and kindness and compassion ought to flow in amazing levels from our being so it is almost like we are shining like stars. <BR/><BR/>In The Shack, Mack goes on that journey of healing and restoration of the wounds in his soul. Like Mack, we often blame God for our woes when it's us who don't really want to give up what we have grown accustom to for the greater. Somehow we think we have reason not to trust what God has for us is better than the muck we are in. But when we put our faith in Him, He is faithful to come along side us and help us gain that freedom and peace we so desire.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-89990207346163872192009-04-10T06:38:00.000-07:002009-04-10T06:38:00.000-07:00karla said: people can be kind without having rela...karla said: people can be kind without having relationship with God, but it comes from their strength I think.<BR/><BR/>Surely kindness comes from a compasionate upbringing rather than strength (do we have to be strong to be kind?). Also pity as well as empathy seems to be fairly widespread even amongst non-human animals....CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-6709846606264818122009-04-10T06:13:00.000-07:002009-04-10T06:13:00.000-07:00Mike, yes people can be kind without having relati...Mike, yes people can be kind without having relationship with God, but it comes from their strength I think. With God we can learn how to reflect Him in His strength instead of in our striving.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-77350794720218178982009-04-10T04:50:00.000-07:002009-04-10T04:50:00.000-07:00Quixote,"I'm aware of the disproofs and consider t...Quixote,<BR/>"I'm aware of the disproofs and consider them woefully inadequate. Thus, by your standard--not mine--they're not evidence."<BR/><BR/>Again, they are application of evidence, not interpretation. This is a key distinction. Proofs are not "evidence" in themselves, they are conclusions drawn on evidence.<BR/><BR/>And, the proofs I've seen in "The Impossibility of God" for instance are quite sound. (Some of them are a little bit of a stretch, but most of them are solid.)<BR/><BR/>"Sure, but measuring velocity or the temperature at which water boils is a far cry from other types of inquiry, and thus adds little comparative value to this discussion."<BR/><BR/>It delineates what is evidence from what is not. Finding a clay pot in the dirt is evidence. What you conclude from that is not.<BR/><BR/>"I'm fairly certain Dr. Martin disagrees with you here, with regard to positive atheism."<BR/><BR/>Atheism in itself (strong and weak) is disbelief in god. I'm sure Dr. Martin does not disagree with that.<BR/><BR/>"John the Baptist."<BR/><BR/>Evidence please. Besides, if there's only one example...<BR/><BR/>"BTW, and seriously, you OK, man? I've noticed a more moderate tone from you lately. It's definitely better, if perhaps a little less exciting, but I wanted to just check in and make sure everything was OK with you..."<BR/><BR/>Wow, if I didn't know you better, I'd think that was a back-handed comment. I'm just going nuts because I haven't been able to work out lately due to a cooking injury, so maybe that's it. Or maybe I'm mellowing with age or something. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com