tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post8418015200284125599..comments2023-06-13T19:06:50.965-07:00Comments on Oasis: Impact of Religion in the WorldKarlahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-61248503935973234612009-01-04T07:20:00.000-08:002009-01-04T07:20:00.000-08:00Karla,I too am searching for truth, no matter wher...Karla,<BR/>I too am searching for truth, no matter where it leads, and I know that you are not on the path of truth. You have to abandon your path in order to follow mine, because I know it is truth. See, I'm following it where it leads and I know for a fact that it leads to the non-existence of god. My box top of the puzzle clearly points this out. And, I'm open to all possibilities, so long as they lead to the only possibility that I know is truth. So, you are clearly wrong, because I know that your way is not truth, since mine is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-27896732296799912662009-01-04T02:09:00.000-08:002009-01-04T02:09:00.000-08:00karla said: Have you read much on epistomology (ho...karla said: Have you read much on epistomology (how we know)?<BR/><BR/>I've never really got into the whole 'Theory of knowledge' stuff. it either gives me headaches or sends me to sleep. Political or Ethical philosophy is more my thing.<BR/><BR/>karla said: You need something to exist in and of itself in order to support the knowing of anything.<BR/><BR/>No you don't. For example I've read a great deal about vampires. They're one of my interests. You could say that I have a fair amount of knowledge about them - despite the fact that they are mythical/fictional creatures. In the same way I would say that you are accumulating knowledge about God - who is another mythical/fictional creature. In many ways the knowledge of these creatures we both possess isn't really knowledge at all... but at least I realise that.<BR/><BR/>karla said: I've found the box top. I know what the puzzle is building toward.<BR/><BR/>Well you *think* and *believe* you have found it. From my perspective you are following the wrong path to any kind of real knowledge about the world.<BR/><BR/>karla said: So to have found that the pieces keep fitting, working together, shapping up, coming into clarity, and building up to the whole it doesn't make much since to stop and abandon it and start in another direction.<BR/><BR/>...and that's *exactly* my position. Everything I've learnt, everything I know and everything I suspect validates my world-view. Absolutely *nothing* I've come across so far indicates in any way that your world-view is more reasonable than mine. <BR/><BR/>karla said: Now with that vision and that relationship with Him it is an impossible thing to turn a different direction.<BR/><BR/>So no matter what information or ideas you come across during the rest of your life you feel that it is *impossible* to change your opinion? Yet again you prove to me why I cannot believe as you believe.<BR/><BR/>Actually every time we debate things it confirms my beliefs (or lack of beliefs) and I honestly recoil in horror at the idea of becoming a Christian - so thanks for that! [laughs]CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-83598240009199903552009-01-03T19:17:00.000-08:002009-01-03T19:17:00.000-08:00Have you read much on epistomology (how we know)? ...Have you read much on epistomology (how we know)? You need something to exist in and of itself in order to support the knowing of anything. I agree knowledge is more like a series of pieces than a full puzzle. But the pieces won't do any good if they are random disconnected shapes that don't build a whole puzzle. Nor will they do any good trying to build the wrong puzzle. I've found the box top. I know what the puzzle is building toward. I don't have all the pieces yet. It's a huge puzzle, but it's taking shape and coming into alignment more and more with the box top. Each piece is a truth, each piece fits the puzzle that matches the box top. So to have found that the pieces keep fitting, working together, shapping up, coming into clarity, and building up to the whole it doesn't make much since to stop and abandon it and start in another direction. I've experienced the truth of the box top. I know what it's all building toward. I still have much truth to grow in and learn and experience--endlessly. But I have come into enough of the truth to know for certain that the path I am on is solid and good. I am on sure footing, despite not having all the answers. I don't have to know all things to know Him. But with Him I can learn more and more about more things and see them more clearly than I was able to without Him. Now with that vision and that relationship with Him it is an impossible thing to turn a different direction.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-7174012359149427742009-01-03T06:37:00.000-08:002009-01-03T06:37:00.000-08:00Cyberkitten, we do indeed have very different worl...Cyberkitten, we do indeed have very different worldviews which make communication challenging, but not impossible. I don't mind a good challenge. <BR/><BR/>When I use the word "truth" I am not just talking about informational statements although that is a level of truth. I am talking about something deeper something you can truly find and experience. <BR/><BR/>I'm sorry I'll have to cut this short, and respond more later. . . I'll write more later when I get time.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-64937659009596373342009-01-02T14:02:00.000-08:002009-01-02T14:02:00.000-08:00karla said: It does sound like I have a double sta...karla said: It does sound like I have a double standard.<BR/><BR/>Indeed. You cannot seek the truth *no matter where it leads* and then refuse to follow it if you think it might lead you away from God. Which, of course, you don't belive it can - because you refuse to acknowledge even the possibility of such a thing.<BR/><BR/>karla said: I think that comes from our differences in what it means to "know" something as true. <BR/><BR/>No, I think the problem is that you use the word 'God' and the word 'truth' to mean the same thing. I do not.<BR/><BR/>karla said: I believe truth exist and is knowable. You believe all we have is uncertainty. . .<BR/><BR/>Well.... all is *levels* of uncertainty.<BR/><BR/>karla said: So when I say if you seek truth "a real tangible thing which can be known" it will lead you to God. <BR/><BR/>...and I don't agree.<BR/><BR/>karla said: The absence of truth is confusion and uncertainty.<BR/><BR/>No. The absence of truth is ignorance and *degrees* of uncertainty.<BR/><BR/>karla said: All is then equal and searching for truth is meaningless. <BR/><BR/>No again. The search for greater truth is never meaningless. It's given us everything around us today. <BR/><BR/>karla said: I love knowledge, but I love the truth because I know there is truth to love.<BR/><BR/>We obviously have *very* different ideas about truth and knowledge. We both reject the others ideas and beliefs about both. I find your refusal to accept what I regard as facts to be most bizarre as I expect you to see my 'rejection' of God likewise. I am often surprised at the fact that we attempt communication at all.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-67530704044146598302009-01-02T13:50:00.000-08:002009-01-02T13:50:00.000-08:00Karla said... All is then equal and searching for ...Karla said... <BR/>All is then equal and searching for truth is meaningless.<BR/><BR/>Searching for truth is never meaningless, even a partial understanding moves us forward. I'd rather live now with the knowledge we have than several thousand years ago.Ali Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04566345726056361182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-32608647022705450562009-01-02T13:13:00.000-08:002009-01-02T13:13:00.000-08:00I see what your saying. It does sound like I have ...I see what your saying. It does sound like I have a double standard. I think that comes from our differences in what it means to "know" something as true. I believe truth exist and is knowable. You believe all we have is uncertainty. . . <BR/><BR/>There is truth and distortions of truth. To seek truth there needs to be a truth to seek. That truth can have levels and dementions of knowing it, but it leads in a certain direction--toward a self-existant truth. Or else there is no truth to seek and all is uncertain as you often posit. So when I say if you seek truth "a real tangible thing which can be known" it will lead you to God. For the only what there can be a truth to know is if there is a truth to be known. The absence of truth is confusion and uncertainty. All is then equal and searching for truth is meaningless. <BR/><BR/>I am always seeking deeper truth. Deeper understanding and revelation. I love knowledge, but I love the truth because I know there is truth to love.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-8774748214892873662009-01-02T08:13:00.000-08:002009-01-02T08:13:00.000-08:00Karla said: If you misplaced your keys do you keep...Karla said: If you misplaced your keys do you keep looking in new places for them after you found them? <BR/><BR/>In other words when you said: "Will we seek truth no matter where it leads?" you meant *other people* and not yourself? You also mean that there is only one place to find the truth so your use of the phrase 'no matter where it leads' is at best meaningless and at worst misdirection. You seemed to be saying that the search for truth can lead to many places (or at least to more than one) but you don't actually believe that. <BR/><BR/>You appear to have made up your mind exactly what the truth of things is and seem to be immune to any alternatives. That is hardly the stance of a seeker after the truth I'm afraid - at least not *my* idea of such a seeker.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-58310819372007591842009-01-02T07:59:00.000-08:002009-01-02T07:59:00.000-08:00If you misplaced your keys do you keep looking in ...If you misplaced your keys do you keep looking in new places for them after you found them? <BR/><BR/>I'd be glad to read your book review. Let me know when you've written it.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-70229302828157085402009-01-02T02:53:00.000-08:002009-01-02T02:53:00.000-08:00karla said: Truth couldn't lead me away from G...karla said: Truth couldn't lead me away from God because my knowledge of Him is not merely cerebral, but tangible and experiencial. It's not just a mind thing.<BR/><BR/>So you're not 'seeking the truth' then... you're seeking to understand God more. What happened to your earlier comment: "Will we seek truth no matter where it leads"?<BR/><BR/>You said - No Matter *where* it leads. But now you say that it can *only* lead to God..... So there is only one path & one destination. So much for 'seeking' It sounds like you have already made up your mind and would ignore or dismiss *any* other path you might stumble across. How exactly is this seeking *anything* - never mind any species of truth?<BR/><BR/>In order to seek the truth you must be open to the possibility that what you presently consider to be true is actually false. Without the possibility of error you are not seeking the truth at all. You believe that you have already found it and that any further 'seeking' is merely to bolster what you already 'know' for sure. <BR/><BR/>Oh, I read a book over Christmas that might interest you (though I'm guessing not thinking about what you've just said). When I do my usual book review in a week or so I'll let you know so you can pop over the my Blog and read it. <BR/><BR/>Happy New Year to you!CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-14124163114251917642009-01-01T17:49:00.000-08:002009-01-01T17:49:00.000-08:00Truth couldn't lead me away from God because my kn...Truth couldn't lead me away from God because my knowledge of Him is not merely cerebral, but tangible and experiencial. It's not just a mind thing. <BR/><BR/>As far as books . . . I too want to do more reading on a variety of subjects. I got some good books for Christmas and a lot of good DVD teachings to watch. I also just got back from a conference so I have much to digest and much to write on.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-70600802464772364812008-12-28T05:09:00.000-08:002008-12-28T05:09:00.000-08:00karla said: There may be a change in direction a l...karla said: There may be a change in direction a long the way, but never a stopping point. <BR/><BR/>But if your seeking path was leading you away from God would you still follow it?<BR/><BR/>karla said: So I'm not asking you to do something I don't do. And I think it is something you are eager to do already--seeking truth.<BR/><BR/>Seeking truth/knowledge it was I do. Hence the title of my Blog. [grin]. This year I intend to read more history, science, politics... and maybe even some religious stuff. I'll let you know when I've read something I think you might be interested in.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-64366434273831297942008-12-27T15:11:00.000-08:002008-12-27T15:11:00.000-08:00No. I haven't stopped seeking. There is so much to...No. I haven't stopped seeking. There is so much to learn about God. I am still growing in knowing the truth and I will always be. No one is every going to have perfect knowledge this side of heaven. So I seek not only intellectual knowledge of truth, but always also experiential knowledge. I don't think there is a stopping point to seeking truth. There may be a change in direction a long the way, but never a stopping point. <BR/><BR/>Regardless of what I think you will find, I don't see why you would take any adversion to advise to keep seeking truth. It's advise I live by as well. So I'm not asking you to do something I don't do. And I think it is something you are eager to do already--seeking truth.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-53143232774001647532008-12-27T13:58:00.000-08:002008-12-27T13:58:00.000-08:00karla said: I think that anyone who truly honestly...karla said: I think that anyone who truly honestly loves the truth will find Jesus.<BR/><BR/>So you have stopped 'seeking' then? You have stopped asking questions? You have closed your mind to the possibility of change or new information which may invalidate your present conclusion?<BR/><BR/>karla said: The only way you can disprove this is to continue to seek truth honestly and see where it leads.<BR/><BR/>Hardly [laughs]. Until I reach the conclusion you have already decided is the final point in seeking then I can only have been looking in the wrong direction and will need to continue to seek.... So if I play by your rules I cannot possibly 'win' until I agree with you.CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-40231033298223925502008-12-27T13:36:00.000-08:002008-12-27T13:36:00.000-08:00Yes. I think that anyone who truly honestly loves ...Yes. I think that anyone who truly honestly loves the truth will find Jesus. <BR/><BR/>The only way you can disprove this is to continue to seek truth honestly and see where it leads.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15737176726360623655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1891021171911308006.post-60713473510351624582008-12-27T08:42:00.000-08:002008-12-27T08:42:00.000-08:00karla said: Will we seek truth no matter where it ...karla said: Will we seek truth no matter where it leads?<BR/><BR/>Though haven't you already determined (for yourself) where that seeking leads. You believe that it will lead to God. I believe that it will lead away from all beliefs in fantasy beings - if you honestly seek the truth.....CyberKittenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394155516712665665noreply@blogger.com