Man wants truth to bend to him, instead of him bending to truth. We want truth to be as we create it to be, rather than we being created by it. We want it to conform to us, instead of us conforming to it. However, truth is not an “it” that we can create, but a Him who created us.
We cannot have the world where truth is sacrificed on an altar of tolerance. That world will always be a false unattainable distortion rather than a true reality from which we can live. The true reality is exclusive of that which is not truth.
Francis Schaeffer writes, “There is that which is true God, and there is that which is no god. God is there as against His not being there. That’s the big antithesis.” Ultimate reality is an antithesis rather than a synthesis. God is not all things. There are things He is not and things that are separated from His good nature, hence the things that are not good.
For anyone to deviate from the goodness that is God, a separation has been caused in the very fabric of ones being setting one apart from God. We are to be set apart unto God, not from Him. Yet we enter this world separated from God and in need of a rejoining with Him.
That which is good can only be that which reflects or is aligned with His Truth as presented in the Person of Jesus.
All else is a distortion of that true reality and therefore false. Bill Johnson aptly stated “The devil is not the opposite of God! He's the opposite of Michael, God has no opposite!" The devil has no power to create truth; he can only distort the truth God created causing an untruth rather than a competing truth. He distorts something causing that path to lead away from God, not toward God.
We want that path to be the same as the path to God. We want to head whatever direction we choose and still be okay with God. If we cannot have our cake eat it too, we blame God for not doing His due diligence to accept our way instead of the way that is true.
We put God on trial instead of realizing we sit before the Judge. He takes off His robe and becomes our defense paying our debt to sin for us. We can receive that payment by receiving Him who is the payment. We can only bear what is true if the Truth is first born into us by Him who is Truth. This is the nature of the rebirth of the person into our new identity as Sons and Daughters of God fully adopted as heirs with Christ to the heavenly Kingdom of God.
It is key to understand that salvation is not something Jesus gives us, but something Jesus is. This is why it is not based on something we earn, but something we are given by being given Jesus Himself. He infuses us with Himself; therefore we gain His eternal life.
9 comments:
karla said: Man wants truth to bend to him, instead of him bending to truth.
Wrong from the very first sentance! [grin]
You haven't experienced people wanting truth to conform to them? I think it is pretty innate in all of us to want our own way.
karla said: You haven't experienced people wanting truth to conform to them?
Of course! It's called 'wishful thinking'
Individuals might do that from time to time but by saying 'Man' you implied that the whole species was doing that all of the time. We have a way of determining truth - it's called SCIENCE.
Scientific truths are independent of our wishes - Though some turn their backs on those truths for their own style of wishful thinking.
So many falsities, I don't even know where to begin. I suppose I'll start with one of the more common fallacious arguments from Karla's arsenal of apologetics...
If we cannot have our cake eat it too, we blame God for not doing His due diligence to accept our way instead of the way that is true. ~ Karla
I don't know if you'd heard me the previous two dozen times I've said that I don't "blame God" for anything, because I don't believe in "God", but here it is again: I don't blame "God" for anything because I don't believe in "God". I know that's really hard for you to wrap your mind around, but it's simply the truth, and last I heard, you were a proponent of truth.
"The devil has no power to create truth; he can only distort the truth God created causing an untruth rather than a competing truth." ~ Karla
And isn't interesting that an all-powerful "God" would allow its "Truth" to be distorted.
We put God on trial instead of realizing we sit before the Judge. ~ Karla
I don't put "God on trial"; I don't believe in "God".
But for sake of argument, if "God" is the "Judge", then what is he judging, since, according to you, there is no day of Judgment..aka, "Judgment Day"?
"He takes off His robe and becomes our defense paying our debt to sin for us."
Yes, yes...my "debt" is paid(past tense). So? What's the problem?
"We can receive that payment by receiving Him who is the payment." ~ Karla
'Sorry...'can't "receive" that which I do not believe is there. And anyway, how has "justice" been served if *my* "debt" is paid by someone else?
"It is key to understand that salvation is not something Jesus gives us, but something Jesus is" ~ Karla
It is key to understand that that is meaningless to those who are not convinced that "Jesus" has a referent in reality.
Again, it's the same fallacious, unconvincing apologetics simply relocated to a new location. What next? Why not just make your blog "member's only", and require registration? Correct me if I'm wrong---you have no doubt in your mind that you're right, correct? If that is accurate, then this to me suggests a mind that is closed. If your mind is closed to anything the conflicts with your worldview, then why not close your blog to it, too?
Cyber I think all of us do at times want to wish away the truth about one thing or another or try to live as if something was not true. Science isn't the only truth determiner--some things have to be true for science to even be possible.
Boom,
My every post is not directed to an atheist readership. I have others who read here although they do not comment. I run into people all the time that say they read here. And sometimes I write just because I'm thinking about a particular thing and feel like putting thoughts to paper.
Moreover my post applies to myself as well and is not meant as a judgement on anyone.
I never said there wasn't a Judgment Day. I only said it wasn't about heaven and hell. Nor did I say God doesn't judge, His judgments are not confined to a future day, but come according to His goodness. I know you don't accept this and I see no reason to get into it again. I know what you don't believe and I know what I believe and I think for right now we have to accept that as being what it is.
"My every post is not directed to an atheist readership." ~ Karla
Fair enough. On the other hand, you know for a fact that you have atheist/agnostic guests, so perhaps it would behoove you to address your audience by group affiliation when you have a specific audience in mind. For instance, "we (theists, Christians, etc) blame God for[yadda, yadda]"
"Moreover my post applies to myself as well and is not meant as a judgement on anyone." ~ Karla
That's freshing to know. On the other hand, at the heart of the Christian philosophy is a deity who is extremely judgmental, which, sadlly, lays the ground-work for human beings to judge other human beings.
"I never said there wasn't a Judgment Day. I only said it wasn't about heaven and hell." ~ Karla
Let's try to clear something up once and for all.
Karla, I don't believe in "heaven and hell". I think it's all a bunch of man-made bunk, not-to-mention, an abhorent, immoral concept to teach people, especially children.
Notwithstanding, if on the extremely, extremely off-chance it's true, I, a nonbeliever, will get "Hell". But let me tell you something---I am NOT going to "Hell" voluntarily, thus, someone or some thing will have to put me there.
Now, who might this be? Who says, "Put him there anyway!...I don't care if he wants to go!"(or something similar) Well?
"I know you don't accept this and I see no reason to get into it again. I know what you don't believe and I know what I believe and I think for right now we have to accept that as being what it is" ~ Karla
Make no mistake, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree and taking a "live and let live" attitude. The problem is that the Christian philosophy, itself, doesn't take a "live and let live" approach. Quite the opposite, really. And futhermore, it commands its members to recruit new members, which requires proselytizing. On top of that, it teaches its members that they can know things that they cannot possibly know. Of course, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this.
Boom “Fair enough. On the other hand, you know for a fact that you have atheist/agnostic guests, so perhaps it would behoove you to address your audience by group affiliation when you have a specific audience in mind. For instance, "we (theists, Christians, etc) blame God for[yadda, yadda]"
I will try and be more careful and clear in that regard. At the same time, if I do not clearly state a particular group please ask before assuming I am.
Boom “That's freshing to know. On the other hand, at the heart of the Christian philosophy is a deity who is extremely judgmental, which, sadlly, lays the ground-work for human beings to judge other human beings.”
His judgments are always right and just as well as merciful, ours are not so much and we do not have the authority He does.
"I never said there wasn't a Judgment Day. I only said it wasn't about heaven and hell." ~ Karla
Boom “Notwithstanding, if on the extremely, extremely off-chance it's true, I, a nonbeliever, will get "Hell". But let me tell you something---I am NOT going to "Hell" voluntarily, thus, someone or some thing will have to put me there.”
This isn’t on topic to the discussion about Judgment Day. Did I clear up for you that there is such a day but that it isn’t a day of God deciding who to grant heaven and who to send to hell? But rather a day where God judges both those who are in Him and already of heaven and those who are not and are already of hell. I don’t really know what it all entails, but it is not a day as you are describing, though there are some Christians that may think that it is. I am not one of those who do.
Boom “Make no mistake, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree and taking a "live and let live" attitude. The problem is that the Christian philosophy, itself, doesn't take a "live and let live" approach. Quite the opposite, really. And futhermore, it commands its members to recruit new members, which requires proselytizing. On top of that, it teaches its members that they can know things that they cannot possibly know. Of course, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. “
But if you are right and there is no God there really isn’t any reason to continue concerning yourself with what I believe. Also we are under no command to “recruit” members, but to love people. And it is loving to share truth with people because the truth helps people. But it is also love not to force it down their throats, so I wish not to continue to cause you such frustration by continuing to rehash the same topics. If you already know I cannot know what I am professing to be true, then there isn’t really any reason for you to listen to me.
"I will try and be more careful and clear in that regard. At the same time, if I do not clearly state a particular group please ask before assuming I am." ~ Karla
Agreeable, and agreed.
"His judgments are always right and just... ~ Karla
Fine---I know you believe that, but you *still* haven't addressed my question. I'll attempt this once more, because I really want to get to the bottom of this, and I will use an analogy to do so.
A man uses his own free will to rob a bank, and he gets caught and thrown in jail until his court-date.
Any reasonable, sane adult will concede that that man is soley responsible for his own actions, and thus, the consequences of those actions, too. However, let's say that that man is sentenced by the judge to 50 years hard time, but the man thinks that is unfair. So? Will he go free?
If you are reasonable, sane adult, you know that that man will not go free. That man will be given the decided-upon punishment for his crime, and it WILL be enforced, even it means someone PHYSICALLY putting that man in prison.
IOW, if that man doesn't go voluntarily, someone is going see to it that the judge's ruling is carried out. The end---no if, ands, or buts.
Bearing that analogy in mind, I can assure you that I'm not going to voluntarily go walking into a place where I know I'm going to be tormented with fire for all of eternity. I don't deserve that treatment for ANY reason, but even assuming I thought I deserved it, I'm *STILL* not going to voluntarily go to "Hell".
Thus, the same applies, Karla----who is going to see to it that I end up getting the punishment that I presumably *deserve? Who is going to put me in "Hell", for not "being in God"? Well?
*BTW, I do deserve "Hell" if I end up there, right?
a) yes
b) no
(multiple choice)
[biblegod is 'good' and 'just'] "...as well as merciful" ~ Karla
Yes, and this is the second or third time I've asked you the following question:
How is it "merciful" for biblegod to stand by and do nothing as untold millions are tormented in "Hell" for all of eternity? Wouldn't it be more "merciful" to just let non-christians die a natural death?
"But rather a day where God judges both those who are in Him and already of heaven and those who are not and are already of hell." ~ Karla
Again, either my point was lost on you, or you are deliberately evading the question. Sadly, I think the latter. Nonetheless, what you just said, above, assumes those who are "not in Him" will *voluntarily* go walking into "Hell" upon their expiration. I can assure you, NO ONE is going to do that.
So again, hopefully you will answer the question as to who or what enforces the "Hell" doctrine. (Hint: You said "God" is the "Final Authority" on all things)
And BTW, no, this isn't "off topic".
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